Pay as you drive - is this the future of motoring?
78In a few short years, driving your car will be very different from what it is now, if our governments have their way. The California, the Dutch and the Australian governments are preparing to change how we pay for the right to drive our cars. Their argument it – if it is worth having, then it is worth paying for. It looks like Dutch drivers are to be the first in the EU to begin paying according to the kilometers they travel, instead of owning the car. Why, of all the cheek! Charge us for driving? They want to take away our right to own a car now?
Presuming you know how toll roads work, where you have to pay to drive on certain roads, the idea is slightly similar but designed to work differently. Drivers will be still charged but for just having the car and doing very basic journeys. The charges will be lumped on the merest smallest trips. I kid you not. Governments really covet our ability to roam relatively freely on the roads and are anxious to get us to part with our cash, it seems.
This charge is intended to replace car purchase tax and road tax in 2012. It is thought that the mileage in car travel will drop by 15%, since the expected charge on the distance will make people opt for public transport. And the Govt there wants to cut CO2 emissions and reduce traffic jams. So is this a wise idea? Especially since taxis, buses and motorcycles will be exempt from this charge. Apparently there will be some alternative system for foreign drivers like me!
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The ordinary driver (who will be tracked by GPS navigation technology - any one see privacy problems with this?) will be initially charged 3 cents, and it will increase to 6.7 cents by year 2018. And there may be rush-hour surcharges! Each car will have GPS installed, recording every journey, sending the information to a billing agency. The philosophy here is that most people will end up paying less since the charge will supposedly not exceed the current taxes. Plus, the doing away with purchase tax on vehicles will supposedly cut 25% off the price of a car’s price. That’s what the Dutch Govt say anyway. So where does all the money go? It is intended to put it towards building roads, railways and transport infrastructure. The Dutch Govt claims that information sent via GPS will be “legally and technically protected”. And so the authorities will “…not be able to access any journey details or track any vehicles…” But that is exactly is what it could very well do. Just secretly. The whole point here is this - this is happening in some countries already. (And I haven't even got to Car Insurance Rates yet!) And there's a very good chance it will happen where You live. It sure stands to reason...
The cost of driving
Car Insurance companies apparently love this idea and think it can’t happen soon enough! It makes commercial sense. They have claimed for a long time that most of those bad things you are insured against (like crashing into other cars) can only happen when you drive, so if you don’t drive, they don’t happen. (And thus we don’t need stupid insurance companies either if this theory makes any sense!) But people who don NOT drive a lot subsidize those drivers who DO those who do drive a lot. Their argument is that when you pay for how much you drive, and no more, you will pay less. Interesting argument. So, does this apply to all insurance – or just comprehensive insurance? So the occasional drivers should benefit, it seems. This method of insurance has finally happened in Australia. In California, there are plans afoot to bring in laws to charge for Pay As You Drive. California Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner has approved rules that will let Insurance firms insure drivers there differently, and claims it will save motorists up to 60% of their costs of driving insurance. So will the way that Car Insurance Rates are made be changed due to government interference? In Texas, a system called MileMeter is being tested, which is the forerunner to the proposed California system. The system will eliminate the whole Joyriding craze, since yet again, all cars will have to have GPS Tracking Systems built in to every car. Again, this raises the hackles for many drivers because the Govt or Insurance firms can technically track your every movement. Is this a good idea, or a case of Big Brother returns?
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Very interesting. That would never fly in LA because the public transportation system here is a joke!
Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of Megavitamin. As well as all of the other questions posed (ethical and otherwise,) much of the U.S. is lacking in reasonable forms of public transportation.
Hi, this is commercialization of the car industry indeed, it is one way to get more money from the people, nice hub, at least we are forewarned, thanks BTW for reading my hubs, Maita
Hy prettydarkhorse:
You said it, Maita! It is commercialization at its worst. And these suckers want us to pay for it. The driver gets screwed every which way! Its only a question of time before it gets here to UK. YAnd your hubs are great! : )
Wow! I hope it never flies, then. I prefer the current system! I like the status quo! Thanks for the comments!
To film critic:
Heh! It seems people don't like this new fangled system. I worry aboput politicians and business interests ganging together against the motorist. They should improve the public transport system anyway! Why are people paying taxes there anyhow?
To Megavitamin:
Drivers of the world, ---UNITE! We'll fight 'em on the beaches , we'll park outside their houses all night and play the Buggles Muscic non stop! LOL!
To Truth From Truth:
Thanks for the comments! Thankyou all for the opinions here!
Wow, what a load of crap! I am getting very frustrated with this world - soon everyone will be microchipped!
I already have a bike, Captain! I just saw the HUB! I was smiling from ear to ear! In fact, I am still smiling! You sure kept your word! My goodness! I might have to reciprocate with a Hub on the best Country for Pirates! It would be Irish obviously! LOL! I am very flattered! My self-esteem is 190% today! Thank you very much! You know how to make a cheeky girl happy! ; )
Countess Batula:
Um - this is 100% true I am afraid. I wish it wasn't as I don't want to end up paying for the privelege of driving my mazda car all around. But this is happening, in the places I mentioned. I hope we don't end up being microchipped like animals, that's just horrible. Maybe criminals should be chipped? I feel another hub coming on here!!...
Thanks for your comments, Countess!
Very good... and coming for a long time unfortunately. About the only way I see "out" for all of us who don't like it, is change our driving habits prior to being forced. That way, the "reasons" for trying/doing it are removed. No reason, no smoking gun, it will die on the vine.
Hi
Confirm some insurance companies are doing this in Australia. Still small yet. We have not bothered changing.
Worried about privacy and big brother under the Dutch system which will spread. Authorities will love it.
Give a big company a money making scam and they will use it. Banks and insurance companies are the worst offenders.
if this happens I am buying a motorcyle or becoming a taxi driver. GPS in every car, no thanks. evil bastards! Like they don't follow us enough already. Why don't they use them damn satellites to paint a new ozone layer, problem solved.
Sounds like Big Brother to me. What a horrible program! Like those who drive more don't already pay more.
GPS tracking is overkill for precisely the reasons mentioned. It would cause a tremendous volume of data to build up, and yes, hackers can and will access it--it would be tremendously useful to shady characters, stalkers, assassins, terrorists, etc.
I believe in pay as you drive, but not at the expense of privacy. A much easier way to track miles driven is make odometers digital. It could be rigged up to simply text the odometer reading to the DMV once a month or so, automatically if you like. That way they would know how many miles you drove, hence how much to charge you, but not where or when you drove.
In the USA *ALL* the money collected needs to go towards public transportation. I have been living in Melbourne Australia and although the locals bitch about it, compared to what you find most places in the US, their public transit is awesome in terms of coverage. Trams cover a radius of about 7K from the city, trains go out further but thin out. Buses go everywhere else but they mostly operate in daylight and some are sketchy. Driving in Melbourne is not that bad, but parking is so expensive and painful in the city I would never drive there. People in the burbs can still have their own or hire cars for big road trips, but save money by taking transit for every day town trips.
In the US, the public transit is not really useful and so not so many people use it. You can't chip away at it, Big bucks need to be allocated for a system like NY and people need a serious financial incentive to use it, and it has to be convenient and high coverage enough to be useful.
It is not a constitutional right to own or drive a car. Just the same way big yards are not tenable in cities, private cars for everyone are just not in the best interests of civilization. The sooner people (ESPECIALLY US PEOPLE) accept that objectively provable fact, the better we'll all be.
MEterry:
You have a point, maybe they are trying to shake things up and use scare tactics on drivers. I would not upgrade to a hybrid car, for instance cos the price is ridiculous. I could buy 2 hatchbacks for that money.Its politics gone mad.
maryspatch:
I am glad the Australian thing is still too small to have any serious influence. The Dutch GPS thing is annoying, tracking people's movements in their car, it's way too much interference. Next thing we'll have them talking to us in our cars. I wish the car manufacturers would just band together and resist this, don't customers (or the prospect of losing them) mean anything to these people? Thanks for commenting! : )
Bovine Currency:
That's crazy! Winter here means that cycling for me is strictly sunny day activity. If its warm and sunny where you are, be thankful! I wonder have some car manufacturers been given conditional bailouts - but they are having to give in to this new political pressure? Maybe it's not that. I hope not. I hope it never floats. Ozone layer...h'mm, maybe some harmful rays from the sun have damaged their brains and caused them temporary insanity? You could be on to something there. Love the name, by the way!
Ivorwen:
I agree. I am tired of being screwed for being a driver all the time! Appreciate the comments!
Hot dorkage:
Phew! Big comment here! I agree the odometer is better, they could just check the amount you drive when you get a check up or every few months. (They could make check ups mandatory, kill 2 birds with one stone, but will they understand that kind of joined-up-thinking? Doubt it!) I dont want my driving habits and journeys data been given to big retail outfits to see can they find new ways to lure me to alternative shopping locations. Its just too much nosey interference. GPS is useful, but not like this. It might have some good uses, like improving road conditions or creating better tourism or local conditions, but not this way. People in the Burbs there sound lucky, that they can claim a transport system as good. I found New York was taxi and bus - not too sure if it was really that good, it was cheap-ish. Most govts need to spend more on alternative transport. Trams that run along roads that run every 10 or 14 mins, and cheap enough so people will use it. Ireland got a new tram system in its capitol, we went there earlier this year, but they charge near Eur 10 to use it. A taxi will be less on shorter journey. Some towns in UK are similar. Yes no one can say drivers have driving rights, but they should have some say in how it all works! It affects us in the end. Thanks for really great comments here! : )
Well, being in the service and repair business, public transportation and travel times are not an option. Unless of course people don't mind waiting while I load tools, supplies, sewer machines, etc. on and off the bus or train.
From a business perspective, this is just not acceptable as it will increase my cost of doing business, which will have to be recovered by increasing my rates in a very competitive field. In reality, it could put the service and repair business out of business.
What about the vehicles that are not equipped with GPS? Who is going to pay that bill? I see the government, auto industry and technology getting a bit big for my pocketbook. Maybe I should just fold the business and collect welfare or unemployment... Stop trying to work and just let the mighty, "knows better" government take care of my finances. Grrrr....
We already pay a car tax anyway; it called the vehicle registration fee, which, for some cars, doubled last year in California. At any rate, making people who drive more pay more is not a bad idea. Some good data here, thanks for the hub. Later!
Sure it is a Big Brother in all his ugliness. The only good thing is it is not likely to happen, because of the coming economy crash that will take quite a few not-so-frugal governments with it LOL.
I think they should charge people who drive big SUVs or pick up trucks that fail to do what those vehicles are supposed to do, haul people or things. In the U.S. especially there are many people driving around SUVs but they are the only occupant, that is a complete disregard for saving gasoline. Do you really need a Chevy Suburban to go to work? You may have a big family but a suburban is a bit much, get a smaller SUV and a cheaper car to commute with rather than spending all the dough on a huge SUV. Just my two cents.
If Big Brother is our concern, our every move is already being tracked, watched, monitored, and video recorded. Every time a metrocard is swiped, the subway system or public transportation is used, a toll is paid, a digital fingerprint is generated or left behind. Parents can monitor their teenage driving patterns and restrict speed. In the event of an accident, integrated computer chips, among other things, record speed rate at time of occurrence and summon help via Onstar. GPS is used in Commercial Vehicles to track the operator's every move. Credit Cards record time, place and nature of item(s) purchased, etc. To add insult to injury, our cell phones (http://hubpages.com/hub/HOW-TO-CHARGE-YOUR-CELL-PH are high tech leashes. The end of privacy is here to stay.
How do we fight back?
Car pool, fuel-efficient vehicles, public transportation? They can be_and are_useful tools in the efficient transportation armamentarium.
Let's institute Driveless Days Planet-wide (except for emergencies). Impact: Carbon footprint lessened, Big Brother idled, and money saved.
With respect to Big Brother, scientific minds are working on a stealthy technology dubbed "The Art of Invisibility" (LOL!). It's not ready for prime time yet. We'll keep you posted. I'll dub it :"The Age of Inconspicuousness" (LOL).
Thank you for bringing "pay as you drive - new trend for drivers" to our attention.
I can kinda see both sides of this argument. On the one hand, it *could* have a profoundly good environmental inpact. On the other, it's yet another limitation on our privacy, since the technology used...even though the government may claim they are not going to turn it back on us... places the people further into the pocket of Big Brother. Nice hub; very interesting and nicely written.
"Anything that is government driven and not market driven cannot be good!"
Has anyone noticed that no car rental company want's to charge rental cars on mileage?
Has anyone noticed why renting a car then adding mileage and insurance raises the rental rates beyond reasonable rates?
Who are the public that are demanding this?, or is it just more useless career government bureaucrats trying to shove another shovel of crap down the throat of the common man? I think it's the latter and if it is coming from the EU first then we really need to stay away from it.
Market driven or profit driven solutions are the best. A government worker has no incentive to do or be better than the competition in offering better service because there is none. Government workers have the best medical, retirement, and vacation packages so they don't have to worry about your problems. Therefore, government solutions have no profit motive and no desire or use for excellence.
LOL...guess they missed that in the constitution....Like the right to *bare* arms; didn't miss that one...:}
"They want to take away our right to own a car now?"
And they even had *Wheels*. ;}
Just a kidding on a hot topic.
Best - Melanie
Oh they are trying to get all the money in any and every form they can and the plan has been set out already you can bet on that, how they can tag each and every one of us to know our every move and we will be forced to accept it if we want to purchase or do anything. I read all about it in a book long ago.
Great post. Thank you for this very informative post. As far as the US is concerned, I see this as unconstitutional. I don't know why the people of California are not contesting this.
Motoring sure will change...
Remember Communism? It went out of favour but, is on it's way back and rebranded as 'Global Warming'. Like the commie state told everyone what to do, eco-Marxists think they can tell everyone what to drive, pay to drive and, think to drive. And if you don't do what they say, your SatNav will report you as an enemy of the eco-State.
To American's this might sound insane, but in Europe it is already a reality. Ex-communist politicians, like Germany's Obama Hugger, Angela Murkel, and Britian's born again Stalin, Gordon Brown, are queing up to sign new rules that, use SatNav and CCTV to 'reduce CO2'.
Meanwhile, the corrupt and wealthy leaders of the 'third world', are queing up for more free money, called climate change aid, as Europe's leader's plunder the pockets of the European tax payer.
*** Copenhagen is Communism ***
Interesting, I just think we already have too much interference from the government right now without having them track are every move.
Lord just shoot me now. Insanely great are u, but dat is insane ideas, thx for teln us
Wow Cheeky,
This is the first I'm hearing of this. Thanks for the spotlight!
Wonderful hub, you have masterfully tuned in to the big brother syndrome that afflicts western society. The government track people anyway, so this would just be another arm to their spying. Did you know that Australia has invested in 20million satellite system precisely for this purpose, to track people of interest! Nice way to use taxpayer's money. Personally I hate the western way of life, have been fighting against it for past twenty years or more. I am a fringe dweller who operates from outside the 'tic toc' way of life (hence Raging Bull came to life), although it's not easy sometimes. Keep up the good work mate,.
Warmest wishes
Raging Bull Billie
Raging Bull
I say save the planet, but save freedom first.
I like the idea of paying per distance travelled. I drive very little these days, but I still pay big many to keep my car going.
if everone is going to save 60% where is the money coming from to build the new roads from.
if we all save money the goverment will find a new way of charging us more some how.
maybe they will not start a parking charge by the hr so if your car is parked on a public road they will charge $0.10 per hr for the privilege to do so.
sounds more like big brouther is watching more end more
something to think about?
Big Brother or what!
I wonder where all the money goes!
MJ Dakota: I share your sentiments, what the car dealers and garage people and lobbies need to do is get together and make your feelings felt. I only put this hub up a few days ago, and it's already my most read and most popular, it sure is getting lots of comments!
The first thing business asks itself is - how can I make money out of this mess, just like people will make money out of thew carbon climate changes that are coming? I would not give up on hope just yet. Appreciate your views here.
kosmo: really appreciate that, people think it is a double tax, which is annoying as it is, driving costs enough already!
Misha: I agree, it is Big Brother gone crazy! Big brother has a damn nerve!
Jobister: I drive a hatchback but thoughts of an SUV around Lonodon ia as good to me as a bicycle to a fish right now! LOL!
Candle: I can't hold a candle to what you just said, it's about countering what they do, and my idea is youor camoflage idea, make cars invisible and "fix" them so big briother can't see us! LOL!
Frugal fanny: yes, both sides are fine, but we seem to pay for this whole initiative, and I can't help wondering are we being made to pay for more of the same entitlements, just another way to get money from us. A friend said GPS could be handy in an emergency, but it seems a high price...
Ed SUnderland: h'mm, you make a very good point. Who asked for this? Not the public, but companies and the government! BBingo! SO it's not just my imagination! You are most pperceptive! Appreciate it, my friend!
Private eye2500 + pollyannalana: you make good points here. Tagging might be what they planned all along, and I'd sure love to know that book title!... Thanks!
To ghkinc: Yes, I believe Big Brother has "done it" again, and will try foisting this upon drivers. "If it's worth having - it's worth paying for..."
Francine Smith: Communism was a failure and good riddance. I just feel we need to take a stand against our govts trying to control every little thing we do...as for the whole climate thing, my head is aching trying to figure all that out. And how it will put the price of more things I don't want increased! *sigh*
To efn226: I agree. It's time for a change. Again!
To sandy tokz: I'm feeling you, brother! (Unless your female) in which case ---right on!
SingaporeSlinger: Cheers for the input, I had a singapore slinger once, a nice drink! : )
Raging Bull (Billie): So if they spend all that to track us, who is tracking them? Interesting lifestyle you seem to have there! Keep it real! Cheers! : )
Pussycat Dollen: Amen sister! : ) No freedom, no nothing!
To Frank Menchise: we all would like the good bit, but we don't wanna drive our way out of recession just to "pay the bills"!
Pauls boat: The way things are going, Paul, your boat might be a better option than that car! LOL! Big Brother's gonna buy a Tug and come after you! Cheer up, I'm kidding, life on water is cool! I'm a fan of that way of life!
Bmystic57, Sytor: it's crazy - is what it is! Where does the money ever go? It's not to you and me!
It seems that the Powers-that-Be have annoyed a lot of people. GPS is a bridge too far. It is too invasive. I hope it never floats!
We could make license plates that say "Big Brother is my Co-Pilot"! Gee, next they'll be taxing us on breathing. Great hub!
Great hub. The insurance companies have always been a little too warped for my taste. Since they also claim that most accidents happen close to home, I'm not sure their argument of higher mileage makes much sense. Of course, then there's the problem with areas of the industrialized world that don't have a lot of public transportation. Someone (Habee's Big Brother possibly) hasn't thought this through. Sounds to me like the insurance industry is fishing again to see how something like this would be percieved.
Thanks for the comments on my articles! This one is my favorite of yours. I am a long-haul truck driver and am always interested on driving issues. It is great to get the International perspective! Thanks again.
@ habee: Aw, that would be so awesome! My co-pilot! I saw an american plate that said "God is my co-pilot". Amazing. But I totally get your point. Big Brother seems to be assuming too much control in our lives.
@ The Rope: Good point. Where do they get those stats? It's big business and Big Brother joined at the hip. Where's a good Surgeon when you need one!
@ Lindsay Godfree: Glad to finally do a driving hub, glad you like it, Lindsay. You have great hubs! I hope everyone checks them out! Long haul driving is a tough job! People should be making our driving experience better, not worse or more painful! Keep it real!
HI Cheeky girl, it looks like a nice idea, much better than that we pay road tax and then over that toll tax.. i traveled to Jaipur from Delhi couple of days back and had to fork out toll tax at 4 places when distance is only 150 miles and the high way wasnt even maintained properly.
@sweetie1: Toll roads are not one of the better ideas out there, they are too high and they make far more profit than they should. That money should be ploughed back into improving the road to make the journey better and more comfortable for drivers. Not all Toll firms bother to do this. And I wonder why?
Anyone who wants this is insane, european drivers will not allow this charge, cars are too expensive to be adding more to our woes.
@ sandy: The whole concept of charging will never work. I am glad I aired this subject! Sure got a lot of reaction from people! Pay as you drive is a nuts idea!
very good information, it is unfortunate however. Thank you.
@ Truth from Truth: Thanks for these comments! It sure is unfortunate, which is why I posted this hub in the first place, as people need to know. Cheers, my friend! Happy New year to you!
Happy New Year to everyone reading checking out these Hub Pages! Best Wishes for 2010!
Interesting article. Great info.
Keep up the good work.
@ GNworks: Thankyou for the nice comments! We aim to please!
The very idea of charging motorists will not work, they simply won't comply or cooperate. Using tracking to ensure drivers are being honest basically says they don't trust any of us, so we are all criminals. I am not a criminal. I resent that position. And the whole thing is a bad idea. Thankyou for highlighting this total stupidity by our governments. Americans are smarter than that, I assure you.
@ Heather: I was overwhelmed by people's comments on this subject. Wow! What is it about Pay As Your Drive - that people hate sooooo much?! We really are a nation (or nations) of drivers who love our freedom on the road, the last place and bastion of free space left for us to drive our wheels! You make a good point on the criminal-by-association lark, this may never fly as Megavitamin said earlier. Yes, but America is the biggest collection of drivers left out there who have those great open freeways! I hope the whole issue gets buried or kicked into the long grass of politics!
I am doing my driving test in a few months. I hate reading things like this just when I am about to get my driving license. This sickens me. Good hub, Cassy.
Astra, don't let this get you down. Concentrate on passing that test. Love always! XXX
I really hope this doesn't happen in the US. What a pain! I don't see this going over well.
Hello Pinkchic18, Um I am hoping that "pay as you drive" gets the boot, cos I think it is a stupid idea, and will only make motorists even madder than they already are. We pay enough just for the privilege of driving on the roads, and one has to ask - where does it stop? No, it is not going over well at all.
Wow ..That is nice concept
Hy htodd, cheers! Thanks for reading my trend on future driving Hub! Happy motoring!
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Truth From Truth 2 years ago
good post, interesting.